Lessons from Twitter’s Takeover • Lauren Culbertson Grieco

Twitter's former Head of Government Affairs & Public Policy for the US and Canada, Lauren Culbertson Grieco, joins Niki in the studio to talk about her career - from tweeting for senators to navigating Elon Musk's Twitter takeover. Currently President of The Ledyard Group, she shares leadership lessons from the transition days at X, and she and Niki swaptech policy stories. They also share a prediction about what will dominate legislators’ tech agenda in the next Congress. 

“Most of the people who worked at Twitter and some of the ones who still work there have a very strong sense of mission for what the platform means in the world.” -Lauren Culbertson

• Read about lessons learned from Twitter here
• Learn more about The Ledyard Group
• Check out The Blue Owl Group
• Follow Lauren on LinkedIn

• Learn More at www.techedup.com
• Check out video on YouTube
• Follow Niki on LinkedIn

Transcript

Niki: I'm Niki Christoff and welcome to Tech'ed Up. Today's guest on the show is Lauren Culbertson Grieco. She's a DC operative whose career has spanned the halls of Capitol Hill to the chaos of Twitter's headquarters in the months after Elon Musk bought the company. 

Lauren will be unfailingly diplomatic in this conversation, and I probably will not. But we'll both discuss the enormous career value that can be found in a crisis. 

Lauren, thank you so much for coming into the studio today! 

Lauren: Thank you so much for having me. Y’know, Tech’ed Up is my favorite podcast, [Niki: chuckles] so happy to be here! 

Niki: Lauren has to say that because on the way up to the studio, I told her that I'd researched her and I'm like, “I think you did a podcast with a rival podcaster in this studio once before.”

[Both chuckle]

So, she's now been put up to that. But yes, thank you for coming up the stairs. And I will say, well, let's talk about how we know each other. [Lauren: Yeah] 

Niki: We became friends at a mutual friend's wedding in France.

Lauren: Poor us. [Niki: laughs] It was at a beautiful chateau in Loire Valley. 

Niki: We're so relatable. [chuckling]

Lauren: We were talking about crypto in the corner. 

Niki: Oh my gosh, because we're crypto bros. Among other things. And it was the day that my very first episode of this podcast dropped. Back in the days when my voice was sort of trembling, I was so nervous. [Lauren: chuckles] 

And you've been very supportive of the show. So, thank you! 

Lauren: After a few glasses of that lovely wine from Loire, I'm pretty sure I went around the party saying, “Guess what? Niki has a podcast. You should subscribe.”

[Both laugh]

Niki: Thank you. 

Lauren: So happy to be your hype woman!  

Niki: So, today we're going to talk about your career. And you've had a really interesting career in D.C. Obviously, we're both in tech and in Washington, but you also have a moment in time that is somewhat unique to you. Your days at Twitter, but can you just walk me through a little bit of how you ended up in Washington on the Hill as a press secretary? 

Lauren: Yeah, it's kind of a funny story, and it came full circle, and I'll get to how that came full circle. But I was graduating in 2009 from the University of Georgia. Go Dawgs! 

2009, there weren't that many jobs. We were in a recession and I had always been interested in politics and I asked a friend, “Hey, do you know anyone in politics? Can I get connected?” And one thing led to another. And I got a call from my friend who worked on Senator Isaacson's campaign. And he said, “We need someone who knows how to tweet.” [Niki: laughs] And I had been very fortunate to study social media, then new media in school. [Niki: Oh, love it!] And so, I found myself on this campaign tweeting, Facebooking.

My first assignment, I'll never forget this, my boss, the Senator, had a new grandchild and he sent me a photo to post on Facebook, but this photo, the child, was like, it was a photo where the child had just been born. [Niki: mm-hmm] It was red. It was; it was not pretty. [whispers] It was not pretty. It's a beautiful child. It needed a little filter. So, I found myself, like, photoshopping this photo of a baby as, like, my first assignment. 

[both chuckling] 

Niki: Now AI would have, like, a warning on it. 

[cross talk] 

Lauren: And I later met his daughter, and she was like, “I saw what you did. Thank you so much!” [laughing] 

Niki: That's amazing. 

Lauren: And so, that's how I ended up working in politics because I knew how to tweet. 

Niki: Which it's incredible that this has defined your career. I remember, just a little bit after we really got to know each other, you were testifying on the Hill, and you were complimenting different members [chuckling] on their various tweets, and I thought, “She's good!” 

It was very good. 

Lauren: I told Senator Grassley. He is one of my favorite follows. He's a very fun guy to watch, and he's very candid and very real, and I really appreciate that. 

Niki: So, after you were on the Hill, you ended up doing something I would not have thought about doing at that stage in my career, which is you started a consulting firm.

Lauren: Yeah! So, I left the Hill, as many people do, and I had no idea what I was doing. But the one thing I knew is I was really interested in tech policy. My dad is an engineer. He's worked at Hewlett-Packard, or HPE, his entire career. So, I've always been interested. Like I was building websites, I was building Spice Girls websites when I was

Niki: [laughing] I've never heard this. I love it

Lauren: Yeah, I know. 

So, I've always liked technology. I've always, like, kind of, been one of those people who's always following what's happening and trying to get in early on different trends. 

Niki: You're an early adopter, which is how you know Crypto and Web3. 

Lauren: I guess so! That seems to be a trend because it's just something I'm really interested in.

I actually, this is embarrassing, but I'm among friends here. I actually had a vision board that said “Women in tech, storm the hill, top women in tech,” whatever. I didn't work in tech at the time. 

Niki: Oh, I love this!  

Lauren: And this was in 2013. And yeah, so, like fast forward, I, I was so fortunate to be named on the Washingtonian Most Powerful Influential People in Washington list, and it was for the tech section. And I saw that, and I looked back at my vision board, and I was like, “Ohh!” 

Niki: Awww. Get out! This is funny. At one of my team offsites, we did vision boards. It was at their suggestion. I'd never; I'm not crafty. [Lauren: laughs] And my, and I was trying to put, you'll find this funny, I was putting down my dream clients and I found a photo, it was the only thing I cut out and got onto my vision board, because I, again, am not crafty, but I found a photo of Jack Dorsey. [chuckling] 

Lauren: No way! 

Niki: Yes. And full disclosure: he is a client.

So I, it was like vision achieved, but it was my, it was the only thing I got onto that board [chuckling].  

Lauren: Oh my gosh. Well, I mean, that's a good one. I mean, we've both had the pleasure of working with Jack and [Niki: Yes!] he's a lovely human. 

Niki: So, which leads to, okay, so you're doing some consulting, you're in tech, you're getting to know the tech companies.

Lauren: Yeah. And so, I ended up working with Twitter. I also led a coalition of startups during the net neutrality wars. And I also helped a company, who no one knew at the time called Twilio, start their DC operation. [Niki: mm-hmm] 

And so, I really got in during that wave, last wave of innovation as, kind of, all these big companies or even smaller up-and-comers were coming from Silicon Valley to Washington. And, after consulting for Twitter for a few years, I was asked to come in-house.

Just in time for the Trump administration, which was a really fascinating time to be there because one of the most prominent power users was the President. And so, I, I was the liaison with the Trump White House not just for policy things, but account issues too. [chuckling] 

Niki: Oh my gosh! Yes, well this was, so when I was at Uber with account issues, you'd get, y’know, Senator Franken calling because he forgot whatever in his Uber and he needed to find it and you'd get all these personal questions from the Hill, but you were doing this with a highly prominent president who used Twitter as a power user.

Lauren: He loved it. 

Niki: And could make or break companies [Lauren: Yeah] using it. 

And, in fact, caused a lot of issues for me, personally!  

[both laughing]

And it was -

Lauren: I think his staffers would say that too, because they'd wake up and say, “Oh, here's what I'm working on today.”

Niki: Right. I want to back up for a second. One of the advantages of being a consultant is you get to know these companies and sometimes they do bring you in-house. So, when people say like, “Should I become a consultant or go, y’know, stay in-house or get another job?” I'm like, “You don't have to decide. You can become a consultant and find a great client who brings you in.” 

Lauren: I think it's the best of both worlds because you also get to know people before you make that commitment on both sides and it also just gives you the opportunity to be across so many different issues and people. And frankly, you get to kind of attract your tribe and I think that's one of the really cool things about consulting.

Niki: So, you go to Twitter during the Trump administration. He's a power user. You have account issues plus public policy issues. Tell us about that time. This is when the company was run by Jack Dorsey. 

Lauren: One of the most, I would say stressful. Well, there were a few stressful situations, but there was one time where we had this major security incident and all of these high-profile accounts were compromised. It wasn't exactly hacking. It was social engineering, but that's a whole other story. 

President Obama's account, all these other high-profile political figures had their accounts taken over and were tweeting crypto scams. 

[Niki: laughs] 

Thankfully, the company had special measures nd precautions put on the Trump account and it just automatically shut that account down. It didn't take it off the service, but no one could access it. So, guess who had to be the person to get the account [Niki: laughs] and hand it over to the White House? 

So, I had that account for, like, five minutes. [Niki: laughs] And that was like the, the hottest hot potato I've ever had in my career. [Niki: Yes]  “I don't want this!”  

Niki: It is a hot potato.

So, I had - It's funny because the Trump administration was defined a little bit as you had incredible access to the White House compared to previous administrations. At least, that was my experience. 

Lauren: Yeah! Well, they were so inclusive in terms of bringing the tech companies in to partner on various initiatives.

One being the opioid crisis. They brought us in to brainstorm and help see what we could do in terms of our platforms. I ended up doing some really impactful, very cool, cutting edge work with some of the recovery groups and I'm still friends with some of those people today. I would call that a really productive, really big win for that collaboration with the White House.

But then, I was also there for, you know, the “Be Best” Rose Garden ceremony. [Niki: Yes]  I mean, so yeah, I felt like I was always there. And then, of course, when the Biden administration came in, it was during COVID. So, that was a very different situation. That was a time where it was just, I was kind of sitting back and going, “Wow, how did I end up here?”

Niki: Absolutely. Well, it's, it's funny that you mentioned this really positive collaboration with tech companies. This was my experience getting close to the Oval Office. So, we had joined this business council when I was at Uber. I told our CEO, Travis Kalanick, he should join it. I said, “They're going to do infrastructure. Y’know, Mary Barra from GM's on it, like, Bob Iger's on it from Disney. Got to join this council.”  And then, after the inauguration speech, tech employees completely flipped out. 

Lauren: Oh, yeah. 

Niki: They noticed, for the first time in two months, that we were on this business council. We had a lot of issues, both with employees we were headquartered in San Francisco. Anyway, long story short, I was tasked with by my boss with getting the President on the phone with Travis. And I thought, “There's no way I can get the President of the United States on the telephone.” 

And I did!  It was not, actually; I mean, I pretended it was really hard, [Lauren: laughs] but it was the hottest hot potato I think I've ever had in my hands, which leads to, [interrupts self] 

Okay, so you're at Twitter during this era. Not an easy era. Jack, I think, testified on misinformation during those years, right? 

Lauren: We had so many hearings. The first hearings were actually on the Russia investigations. Those were not with Jack, but he ended up having to do one a year later on that topic and then he had several on Section 230, election issues.

We spent a lot of time doing hearing prep. Actually did 18 hearings while I was at the company. 

Niki: Wow! 

Lauren: Yeah. [chuckling] 

Niki: So, right, I don't think I introduced you in this way. Hold on. I'm going to introduce you now. 

[both laugh] 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Niki: You ended up becoming the Head of U.S. and Canada Public Policy and Government Relations at Twitter.

This is why you were overseeing a bunch of these hearings. 

Lauren: That's right. And that transition to leading the team started during the middle of COVID in 2020. [Niki: Right] Which was also a really fascinating time to be there. We were all dealing with it personally and how that was impacting our lives in that way.

It was a very strange time to take over an operation, but it was a really remarkable and consequential time for the company. And I also got to work on some really important policy issues. Section 230 was something that I spent a lot of time on.

Niki: Right! Of course, because the platforms, this is sort of, they hinge on whether or not they're going to have liability under Section 230.

Lauren: Yeah. And free expression issues. I mean, I know the hot topic right now is what's happening with X in Brazil. I worked on a variety of other kind of country issues notably India during that time, too, because the Modi government was trying to get platforms to remove tweets that were critical of the government's handling of COVID.

And that was a somewhat similar situation. We had the offices raided. We had threats on our personnel there. Ended up suing the government and an international court. Some of those issues were also kind of really starting to kick up and escalate during that time. 

Niki: And that was true at Google, too, especially with YouTube.

How do you decide what fits within U.S. rule of law, which is already a little bit, a lot of it complicated in itself, and then you have all these global applications of the tech as well. 

Lauren:  I think people think, “Oh, you just follow the local laws.”

Well, what happens when the local laws are, y’know, violating international human rights and free expression and advancing democracy? And so, that's something that all these companies are grappling with. We had a cross-functional team from everyone from public policy, trust and safety, legal, compliance, to really look at these things holistically.

And frankly, like, we had to have essentially a diplomatic core [Niki: Right!] at the company to deal with these things. 

Niki: That's a really good way of putting it. So again, when I was at Uber, I'll cite this. I was in charge of anything in kind of D.C. airspace, which included embassies. So when we, [chuckling] y’know, were operating without a tax ID, I had to go knock on Argentina's door and say, [Lauren: Oh my gosh] “We want to pay our taxes. We just need an ID.” And they're like, “You're illegal. We're not giving you one.” And I said, “Thank you for your time. I'll move along.” [chuckling] Diplomatic corps.

Lauren: Yeah, I mean, like, those skills are highly sought after in these tech companies and so needed, especially if you're operating internationally. And there are also solutions that these companies pursue.

Like, for example, I know Twitter received a request from Turkey saying,” We think that this individual is a terrorist, you should remove them from the platform.” Well, their terrorist is our democracy freedom fighter [chuckling]. [Niki: Right?] And so, y’know, what do you do in that situation? 

I think the company ended up geofencing and keeping that person off the platform and their content in country, but then their plot, their content was visible everywhere else. 

So, there are also, like, these other options, whether it's geo-fencing, pursuing legal action, labeling. So, there are all these different things that people are, or can do versus just “removal or keep it up.”

Niki: Right, which is what most people think of, that it's sort of this binary, they don't really think about the other options. 

Lauren: Yeah, and then there's also like, y’know, maybe have Congress or the State Department call the Ambassador and say “Knock it off.” [chuckling]

Niki: I mean, [singsong voice]  “Oh Congress!”, but they're busy with other things right now.

Lauren: Although I will say that there were members who were helpful. [Niki: Good!] would happen. But I, I actually have mentioned this in other conversations recently. Just in hindsight, I think the U.S. government needs to have more processes and mechanisms in place to help U.S. companies with these issues. 

Niki: Sometimes you were dealing with the intelligence community within the U.S. government who's telling you this is misinformation. And sometimes you're dealing with someone who says, leave this up, it's a free speech issue. And you have different parts of the government giving different signals to one company. 

Lauren: Oh, yeah. That's also a huge problem because there can be varying and conflicting interests within the U.S. government. 

Niki: Right, and you're dealing with all of that. Okay, this was a very substantive conversation. [Lauren: yeah] Now we're going to move to sizzle.

Lauren: Let's have some fun. Let's do sizzle!

Niki: Let's do Sizzle. You were at Twitter when Elon Musk, in sort of a shock to himself as well, it looks like, like a dog that caught a car, bought Twitter.

Lauren: I was actually there in San Francisco the day he brought the sink in. 

Niki: Right, you were at headquarters. 

Lauren: It was a complete coincidence. 

Niki: Which is how you found yourself sort of like Forrest Gump at Twitter, where like every single thing that was, y’know, breaking news, you were at the front lines of. 

Lauren: I mean, I, maybe I seek these things out?

I'm not sure! [chuckling] 

Niki: Well, I mean, that's true. People sort of in our line of work do like crisis. It was a corporate crisis in many ways. I'm sure you have some thoughts on how leadership should manage these huge changes. 

This was a massive cultural shift, branding shift, employment shift for people who work there. What was it like to be on the ground? 

Lauren: Yeah, I mean, I was there the week that happened. People were coming into the office because people weren't required to. People would come in and out as they wanted. But everyone was there because I think people knew, like, “This is it! It will never be the same Twitter that it was before.” 

And there was also a Halloween party the day that he came in and people getting fired, [Niki: fitting] which was kind of a weird dynamic. 

Niki: Yeah. Not how you want to ring in spooky season [chuckling]

Lauren: People were in costumes. 

Niki: Right. You're dressed as like a bat and then you get fired. And it's, you really regret it. 

[both laugh]

Lauren: Yeah. That was kind of weird. 

Things kind of happened over the course of a few weeks. Of course, some of our senior leadership, they departed pretty quickly. There was one kind of major RIF that hit a little more than half of the company, which was, y’know, a - I've never been through anything like that.

They were RIFed right away. Managers didn't know what the final list was, would look like. [Niki: Right]  I remember calling people on my team and being like, “Did you make it?”

Niki: Yeah. So, it's the ground shifting under your feet. [Lauren: Yeah] By then we were friends, we get along like a house on fire, and we kept talking through this period because you stayed for six months, which is - six months at that time was like six years at another company. And we kept talking about when it was going to be time for you to decide to leave.

I know you made that decision. So, how did you think through it? You're there. Your friends and colleagues are being laid off. Senior leadership is resigning. You have Elon Musk, who could not be more different, right, as a leader of the company. And you spent six months there. So, one of my questions is why?

A lot of people were asking you that. [chuckling] [Lauren: Yeah]  Why? And then, and what did you get out of it? I mean, something because you obviously stayed till the next spring. 

Lauren: Why not? [Niki: laughs] No, I'm, I'm a very curious person and I really wanted to see how this was going to go. That was also paired with a really strong sense of mission and that's not unique to me.

Most of the people who worked at Twitter and some of the ones who still work there have a very strong sense of mission for what the platform means in the world. I would meet human rights activists, people around the world, people in a hurricane or natural disaster who would come up to me and say, “Twitter saved my life.”

And so, when you get to work in the private sector, [Niki: right] in technology. And you're someone who's worked in government and kind of, like a lot of us, we come to Washington with a mission. We're going to save the world. It was such an honor and privilege to have that role and to be at the intersection of, y’know, purpose and technology, and to just work with such smart and thoughtful people.

Niki: I'm so glad you're reminding us of this era because Twitter, now known as X, which had, I think, an actual sort of glitching out X neon sign that replaced that adorable little bird that we all knew and loved, I think of it now as like just the gutter of the internet. 

I mean, I know it's not. I know there are worse places like 4chan and, but on the sort of non-dark web, it's just an absolute dumpster fire from hell.  [laughing] 

Lauren: You promised you would give your unvarnished opinion. And I would be diplomatic, because I do have friends who are still there. 

Niki: Yes, be diplomatic. Tell us!  But the mission you were just talking about has changed quite a bit, partly because of the gutting of the teams, right?

Your friends that are still there it's not nearly as many people with that expertise you had just been talking about. 

Lauren: Yeah. This is the core kind of big question around social media is just, like, how should it work? How should it function? What are the values around it? And, y’know, what we're learning is there's a wide spectrum of opinions. 

And, y’know, now X represents one [Niki: incels [laughing]] on that many spectrum. Yeah, everyone has their opinion on that. Right after the acquisition happened, we were in the middle of an election in the U.S. 

Niki: Right. Well, and this leads to the other point on mission. [Lauren: Yeah]  Free speech absolutism is an ideology, and it is one that's been embraced by the new CEO, Elon Musk. [Lauren: Yeah] So, it still is a mission to him. 

Lauren: Yeah, yeah. I was at the company for a long time. I really respect the leadership that I worked under. But I'll say, like, sometimes I didn't always agree with where things went. I, I'm a bit more hawkish on speech issues, like, that's just me. And I think that that's rooted from my experience of where I grew up and also spending time with activists around the world who are fighting for democracy.

Their views are very different than what we see in the U.S. They're worried about being removed or taken down or speech being removed. They're like, “We know that people are attacking us from our governments who disagree with us. That's fine. Just don't remove us,” It's like the inverse of what we hear here. 

Niki: Right. So, okay, we'll go back to - You're in the headquarters the day Elon takes over. A lot of your friends and colleagues are laid off. You then experience what in those six months after he started?  Personally and professionally.

Lauren: Yeah. So, it was like being in the, in a hurricane, and you're in the eye. So, it's actually very quiet. It's quiet in the sense of your immediate surroundings. There are less people in the office, right? So, it's physically more quiet. But then, once you step out of kind of your eye and bubble everybody is interested. I don't think I went to a cocktail party, like, during that time. [chuckling] 

Niki: I know we talked about this because a lot of people would say, “What are you doing staying?”

And I have some relatability with this. I was on a losing presidential campaign, which was tough going. I was at Uber 2015 to 2017, which was some of the most complicated, challenging times at Uber, but I learned, I think, the most professionally during those days, because you can be at a company that's well functioning, like I was at Google for years and years, and it functioned incredibly well, and then you're at a place undergoing enormous change, and you have a challenging founder or CEO or principal, and you're learning a lot day to day.

Lauren: Yeah, I had people telling me I needed to leave. I also had people saying, “You should stay.” 

Niki: I can't remember what I said. Probably, “You should stay until your gut tells you you should leave.” That's what I usually tell people. 

Lauren: That's probably right. And I, I felt like I needed to give it a significant amount of time just to have that experience and to learn.

And I did, to your point. I learned a lot about leadership. I learned a lot about myself and how I interact with people. There's a side of me and a part of me that came out during that process that I didn't know existed. 

Niki: Tell me more about that. 

Lauren: Well, I was vetted. [laughing]  [Niki: Good, great!]  And it was almost like my capstone of working at Twitter [Niki: mm-hmm], where it's like you're asked to defend all the work that you've done and your approach, and I just kind of went in guns blazing.

Niki: Yeah, and you're being asked by someone who's not known to coddle people, right? You're getting asked direct questions about this. 

Lauren: Yeah, which, you know, if I bought a company for, y’know, 48 million, sorry, 48 billion, 47, 48, I forget now! I would want to kick the tires, too! 

Niki: Well, [sarcastically] one might usually kick the tires ahead of time, but yes, you get there and you start kicking the tires. 

[both laugh] 

“Where's Lauren? [chuckling] [Lauren: But I, y’know] “What did I buy?” 

Lauren: I, and y’know, Niki knows me, not everyone here knows me, but I, y’know, I, I, I'm from the South. I like to be quite diplomatic. 

Niki: Yes. Very demure. Very modest. [Lauren: Sometimes!] I wish I hadn't used a TikTok meme. 

Lauren: Maybe I was a little more brat during that era!

[both laugh] 

Niki: Yeah. I think that we talked about this, that you felt like you had to, especially take the work of all of your colleagues, including the ones that had left and explain the rationale behind the things that you had done.

And it was really world-class work. You guys were especially known as a world-class team, the Twitter policy team. 

Lauren: Oh, we had the best people who were smart, who were thoughtful, who would engage. And the thing that I loved about working on that team is that we were given the freedom and power to engage.

And that's something that I hear consistently is, like, “You guys were there. You showed up, you weren't afraid to have the hard conversations.” I won't name other companies, but some didn't really, maybe they were more bureaucratic and wouldn't, didn't have the runway to do that.

Niki: That's where I do become diplomatic and say nothing [both laugh] about the more bureaucratic companies. [both laugh]  But it's true, you all were on the front lines and given a lot of free reign to do that. 

Lauren: Yeah, yeah. It was such an honor and privilege to be able to work in that setting and environment.

Don't get me wrong. It was a hard job. 

Niki: Right. Which leads to, I think it was six, just about six months after [Lauren: Yeah] you did decide, “Okay, it's time for me to, to head out.”

Lauren: Yeah. Well, and I thought a lot about, y’know, “Well, why would I stay? Why would I go?” And what it really came down to for me is, “What do I want to be working on for the next few years?” 

And there's so much happening in emerging technology and, especially around AI. And I was like, “I want to work on that.” [Niki: Right] That feels like my next thing. It felt like a breath of fresh air. I love free expression and content moderation and Section 230 issues, but I kind of wanted a break from that.

Niki: Right. Well, you'd been doing it for years! 

Lauren: Yeah. And so I really wanted to be part of this next wave of innovation. And that's what I'm doing now. 

Niki: So, yes, so you've started your own consultancy. 

Lauren: Yeah. 

Niki: The Ledyard Group. 

Lauren: That's right. 

Niki: And what are you working on? What specific issues are you looking at most closely?

Lauren: I live a portfolio life, as one of my friends has said. [Niki: laughs] I'm very entrepreneurial. I wear many hats,and some of those hats include the Ledyard Group, which is my consultancy. I'm also part of the Blue Owl Group, which is a collective of some of the former members of the Twitter public policy team.

Niki: The Washington Post wrote a nice article about you guys, like, “The gang getting back together.”

Lauren: And y’know, they put my photo in that, and it was a photo from a “Be Best” event. [laughing] That photo won't die! 

[both laugh] 

But anyways, yeah, and so,  I'm working quite a bit on AI policy, a lot of issues around data and data privacy, which I think is going to be a huge part of AI and AI development.

I sit at that space of emerging technology and the people who are building it and how do we ensure that they're able to thrive and grow as well as having, y’know, safeguards and the guardrails in place that need to be there, but ones that, kind of, have a healthy relationship with innovation.

Niki: And we talk a lot, as people who are both working and consulting, about sometimes it can be feast and famine, and when do you know when to say no to a client, and when do you have capacity to do it, and I have found those conversations really meaningful. 

I mostly work on emerging tech issues rather than big tech issues, even though I've been in big tech for such a long time, I mostly end up on the emerging tech side of things, which is sort of an innovative space. It's a new frontier of what's going to happen on the Hill. 

You mentioned data privacy. I think it's something that, y’ know, win, lose, or draw in the presidential, and I really think it could be any of those three, we are going to be talking about privacy all of next year.

Lauren: Yeah, I agree. I know everyone kind of rolls their eyes and like, “Oh, are we going to really do it again? Last time didn't go so great.” You know, so I, but I'm bullish that we, we just have to do it.

Niki: Right. This is like Infrastructure Week when it was a joke because we had Infrastructure Week about 11 times until we actually had Infrastructure Week. [Lauren: Yeah] And it just showed up. Data privacy is going to happen. 

Lauren: Yeah. I mean, it has to happen because data is so critical for building AI systems. And if we don't have clarity, we are going to hamstring ourselves in the AI arms race internationally. And that means with China, of course, everyone talks about China when you talk about AI in the US, but it's relevant.

I'm also working on some of the kind of infrastructure issues, which has been fun to kind of branch out a little bit and put my old hillstaffer hat on. Um, and so it's been a, um, a nice change and I think it's only going to be an area of policy that's going to grow. 

It's fun to be kind of at the ground level. 

Niki: This is where old is new again. One of my very first communications challenges at Google. Like you, I've spanned comms, strategy, and public policy. But, one of my first inquiries was about how much energy is used with a single Google search, and now we're back to how much energy is going to be used with AI, so…

Lauren: Yeah, that, that one's a whopper. [Niki: It’s a whopper!]  I'm really glad that people are taking note of it and taking it seriously, and so that's something that I'm really looking forward to digging in on more next year. 

Niki: I'm delighted that you're here. You've been an enormous, booster and supporter of mine.

We all have long careers, and we have good friendships, and you've been a piece of that for me for several years now. And it's so lovely to have you on the pod.

Lauren: I'm so happy to be here and thanks for being such a great supporter of mine and friend, and also to so many others in this community. 

So, thanks!