Profiles in Tech: From Campaigns to Crypto • Julie Stitzel (DCG)

Sr. VP of Policy at Digital Currency Group, Julie Stitzel, sits down with Niki in the D.C. studio to talk about their shared path from Midwestern upbringings to helping shape crypto policy in the nation’s capital. Julie shares her admiration for Hill staffers and why she remains optimistic for the future of crypto in the U.S. They also do a little arm-chair quarterbacking on the 2024 presidential campaign. 

“...when I think about innovation, I think the U.S. should be the place where people come. These innovators, these builders should feel free and excited about building in the U.S. and it's been the opposite experience for builders in the digital asset space.” -Julie Stitzel

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Transcript

Niki: I'm Niki Christoff, and welcome to Tech’ed Up. Today in the studio, I'm joined by Julie Stitzel.

She's the Senior Vice President of Policy for Digital Currency Group, one of the largest blockchain-focused investors. This episode's goal is to introduce you to a tech policy expert that I respect and like and learn about her path from political campaigns to crypto. Plus, we'll get Julie's quick take on the recent past and near-term future of digital assets.

Julie: Julie, thank you for coming in today. Niki, it's awesome to be here. 

Niki: With this podcast, I have on friends and colleagues and work friends all the time, and I was thinking about you because we both somehow went from nice Midwestern girls to crypto bros. 

[both laugh]

Julie: [crosstalk] Up top. [Niki: Right, exactly]  Here we are.

Niki: Here we are. And how did this happen to us? We'll go through our meet cute, but when we met, it was a moment when suddenly Washington, just out of nowhere, everybody had to rush and become experts and so we crossed paths then. 

It's been a long journey, but crypto's back. It's in the presidential campaign. Both candidates are talking about it. So, I definitely want to have, sort of toward the end of this conversation, discuss why that's the case. Some polling you guys have done, any hot takes you have, but let's start with you. 

Julie: If I had to describe my pathway, the first ten years of my career were focused on political campaigns and then the, the most recent 15 - It's hard to believe that I've been in D.C. now [chuckling] almost 25 years. 

Niki: I know! I, too, have been - well D.C. and Silicon Valley for about 25 years.

Julie: Yeah, no, it's And it's been a wild ride. But yeah, that said, in the past 15 years have been focused on policy. 

Niki: You here have worked on [interrupts self]  I want to call something out. You gave me a tip once. So, we were on a Zoom call and you were wearing this adorable Bitcoin t-shirt, which is actually hard to find adorable Bitcoin t-shirts.

I'm like, where did you get that? And you said, “Etsy!” And then you gave me a tip, which I'm going to give our listeners.  And you said, “Always look at the editor's picks.” Is that what they're called? [Julie: Yes] Or Etsy picks? [Julie: Yes]  And you said, “They put a lot of work into highly curating it.”

Julie: Yes. No, it's great. And I mean, I loved working at Etsy.

And one of the best things about it was working with the sellers and advocating on their behalf. And so, anytime I actually encountered a seller, I would buy something from them to support them, which my husband was increasingly like, “Okay, let's cool [Niki: laughs] it on the red boxes” or whatever I was buying from Etsy at the time.

But, yeah, Etsy was fantastic. It was, I mean, anytime I can advocate for predominantly women, micro-business owners competing in a global marketplace. I mean, it was a dream job. 

Niki: And so, you're telling their story on the Hill, doing, I'm assuming fly-ins,  [Julie: Yep supporting and advocating for flexibility for them as [Julie: Yeah] gig workers.

Julie: There were a lot of sellers who were doing; they opened up their Etsy shop, but they had to maintain their traditional nine-to-five job. And so, at Etsy, we were thinking about how can we make it easier for these women, predominantly women, to make the leap from a part-time seller to a full-time seller and to really pursue their passion.

And that involved discussing portable benefits so that they, they had this sort of safety net to, to make that move to internet sales tax, trade, intellectual property. So, it ran the gamut of issues. 

Niki: And I can't believe that we didn't cross paths sooner because I was at Uber working on similar things. [Julie: yeah!] Portable benefits. [Julie: Yep] An option to help people transfer benefits across gig work. [Julie: Right] And so, we were working on the same issues. Then, another cross point where we didn't cross paths is then, you were at the Chamber of Commerce working on, on capital markets. 

Julie: Yep. Yeah, so I started actually at the Chamber Technology Engagement Center, C_TEC, which was their tech policy hub, and then eventually moved over to CCMC.

And worked for Tom Quadman, who's just like a total gem. 

Niki: I love Tom Quadman.

Julie: I love that guy!  

Niki: TQ. Okay, full disclosure, C_TEC is one of my clients. [Julie: Yeah] He's so smart. 

Julie: Yeah. 

Niki: He absolutely gets it. We constantly get excited over AI and quantum being combined to fix whatever.

He's a great guy. Shout out. 

Julie: Yeah. He's, yeah, he's the one of the reasons I stayed at the Chamber as long as I did. It was great because when I moved over to Tom's team, I was afforded the opportunity to really narrow in on digital assets. While I was at C_TEC, I really got curious about blockchain.

More in a general sense, so not just, like, financial services, but also supply chain management, how it makes systems more efficient, all that good stuff. And then, when I moved over to CCMC, for about a year, actually, I worked with former Commissioner Troy Paredes, SEC Commissioner Troy Paredes and a law firm.

And we interviewed companies that were in this space for almost a year just talking to them about “What are the barriers that you're experiencing as a builder in this space? If you were king or queen for a day, what regulation would you remove or have in place?” 

And so, the product of that work was a paper that we released in, I think it was January 2021? My, my days [chuckles] and timelines are always a little fuzzy, but yeah. And it talked about parameters and regulations for the digital asset space. 

Niki: The Chamber of Commerce is always looking at the business advancement of the U.S. from small businesses to big businesses, and that includes making sure we don't get left behind. [Julie: Right] A competitive advantage, and one of the things I know you and I both believe strongly is blockchain technology. Not just the digital assets that sit on it, but the technology itself is transformative, here to stay, and really important to our competitiveness.

It makes sense that you would potentially go from this more traditional, y’know, financial angle into digital assets. And your next job was at Block. 

Julie: Yep. 

Niki: You were the head of Bitcoin policy. 

Julie: Yes. Then that was, I think three, I joined three months before the infrastructure fight. So, or maybe fight's an aggressive word. [Niki: No, it was a brawl] 

[both laugh] 

It really was. So yeah, this was, Block was awesome because I was able, I had access to some of the smartest people in this space and that became so apparent when we were going through the infrastructure, y’know, battle because I was able to tap really great tax people, really great engineers.

And I just, I just, like, learned a ton while I was at Block. I, I still don't know everything there is to know about digital assets. I mean, there's always more to learn, right? But I just feel like I had, like, a Ph. D. having access to such smart people. They have just like such a solid team there.

Niki: They really do. And so that's how we met. To back up, the infrastructure package was not focused on digital assets. 

Julie: No, it was not! 

Niki: And sort of overnight, literally in the dark of night, there was a provision, a reporting provision, sneaked in. It is law now. It happened really, really fast. 

But the small niche group of people, you being one, who were focused on Bitcoin policy, exploded into bringing in other communication strategists like me [Julie: mm-hmm], other lobbyists, policy experts, to try to sort this out because it was so unexpected. 

Julie: Yeah. And we had nine days. [Niki: Right] [both laugh]

It was insane. Which felt like a century. [Niki: It did] It was, yeah. But it was, I can't even, I was thinking about that before, on my way over here, I'm like, how long was that period of time? And I think it was actually nine days. 

Niki: And I consider it, even though it was in many ways a loss, policy-wise, it was a win for the industry because suddenly, everyone was paying attention to this because we realized Congress was doing something about it. They were acting. 

And so, everybody needed to get engaged. So, from fall 2021, which is when we met, until now, there has been a ton of work ongoing in that industry. We went through a phase where crypto was on everyone's mind. And now, I think, obviously, the zeitgeist is all focused on artificial intelligence. But crypto hasn't gone away, but it's re-emerged. 

Julie: There was a lot of work that was done last year. My conversations on the Hill and working with staffers and members of Congress. You could see this steady escalation of sophistication and understanding of what we were talking about when it came to digital assets.

With both Republicans and Democrats, and I think that came to a head last summer when the House Financial Services Committee had two votes, one on stablecoin, the stablecoin bill, and one on FIT 21, and you had both Democrats and Republicans voting for that in the House Financial Services Committee. That might not seem like a big deal, but there was a lot of work by a host of people to up the education quotient and continue to answer questions, be on call, and make sure people were comfortable with the positions that they were taking on that bill so that it was sustainable.

It wasn't a fragile sort of coalition. So, that was, that was a pretty pivotal moment last year, even though I don't think it got quite the headlines that other events got. 

Niki: Right. 

I've heard you referred to the staffers. Do you call them the, I think the unsung heroes of democracy? 

Julie: Yeah, they're like the silent heroes of democracy! 

Niki: Yes, the silent heroes of democracy. They have to cover every single topic coming into their office. [Julie: Yes] From like, almonds [both laugh] [Julie: Right] to blockchain [Julie: Right] to artificial intelligence to funding the government. [Julie: Right] And so, there was this really steep learning curve because it's not easy. Cryptocurrency, digital assets, blockchain is hard to understand. Also, and I've said this to the industry a million times it is ever changing vocabulary, which if you want people to buy into it, you have to stop making up new words. [laughs] 

Julie: Yeah. And I mean, it's super weird for a lot of people still. 

Niki: It's weird. And I think a lot of people, because it's hard to understand, just sort of ignore it. But that has not happened in D.C. Staffers have become more and more sophisticated, partly because, y’know, the businesses are moving overseas because it's just too hard to run a business here. And when you start to see technology moving overseas, I think you get people's attention. 

Julie: I mean, that's what we're seeing as an investor at D.C.G.

And it's hard to watch because people have a misconception that this is a partisan issue when actually I think it's more generational in Congress. It's harder to conceptualize maybe for the for the older members of Congress, but the younger members are understanding it as are all of the staff.

And so, that has been really helpful in our efforts for education because I think people think twice or recognize that this isn't going away. [Niki: It's not going away] It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, but you can no longer afford to not know about it if you are, y’know, not only a member of Congress but also running for office.

I think we're seeing folks recognize the importance of at least having a foundational understanding. 

Niki: [interrupts] If for no other reason than because traditional financial institutions, TradFi [Julie: yeah] in the crypto business, that's what it's known as, are going to incorporate this technology and already have.

I remember when I got a notice from Fidelity. 

Julie: Yes!! Fidelity's been a leader in this space for a long time! 

Niki: Right. And I've heard people say, “Don't listen to what the banks say. Watch what they do when it comes to digital assets and blockchain technology,” and they are folding it into their work, and then you have the more, I would describe as pure, sort of decentralized systems, and all of that, to your point, it's not going away, but it is going overseas. [Julie: It is] You see the United Kingdom embracing this. Singapore. 

Julie: Yep. [Niki: The UAE] The EU. I mean, and that's, I think, what is probably one of the most disappointing things to me because it feels like our approach to date has been un-American. 

When I think about innovation, I think the U.S. should be the place where people come. These innovators, these builders should feel free and excited about building in the U.S. And it's been the opposite experience for builders in the digital asset space. They are great, like, visionaries, great leaders in the space and their products are designed to help consumers and everyday people make their lives easier.

And they feel like they have a target on their back. My job as SVP at D.C.G is to try to clear the lane so they can focus on building, but also creating a space in the United States where it's still good to innovate.

Like, why would we cede innovative capital? Why would we cede potential economic growth both in job creation and GDP growth at the state and federal level? That makes zero sense to me and it's the opposite of the way we've operated in any other industry. 

I'm curious, do you, can you think of a time where we've been so hostile towards innovation?

Niki: I'm not saying cannabis is innovation necessarily, [both chuckle] but it was part of the reason I worked in that space is much like Uber and the gig economy. It was a 50-state play because you couldn't get the federal government to make just, kind of, common-sense decisions to protect people wanting to be regulated.

Julie: Right. 

Niki: And rarely do people come to Washington - which the crypto industry has done, saying “Please regulate us so that we can stop having this tax of having all of our, y’know, executives focused on navigating Washington. So we can just go build stuff,” 

Julie: Right? And going back to your point about people going overseas, they don't necessarily like the rules. They don't agree with everything that has been passed or adopted. But at least they know the rules. I feel like in the U.S. we're trying to kick a field goal just to use a football analogy. And we're not even sure where to kick the ball The goalpost keeps moving. Some of our companies don't even know where to kick the ball and that's insane to me!  

Niki: That's right, I want to get into the politics of crypto. So, you mentioned it's not necessarily a partisan issue, which it shouldn't have to be, I agree. 

One thing I don't really understand is why a politician would be against it.

Julie: Oh my gosh, I'm with you on that! 

Niki: It doesn't make any sense because you have some people who care about it. A lot. [Julie: Yes] About this issue. Not a ton of people. And we'll talk about whether you agree with that. [chuckles]  [Julie: Yeah] 

I don't personally think there are a ton of people who are single-issue crypto voters. However, I don't think there are any, I think it's like the null set of people who are so against crypto that they're going to vote based on that. 

So politically, the calculus makes no sense to me that you'd ever be against it.

Julie: I  totally agree with you. There's, it's, it's a net positive, I'd say, to be pro-crypto and I'd say like in a broader sense in the campaign sense that's pro-innovation.

You run the risk if you are coming out hard against crypto to be labeled as anti-innovation and that's nuts. Like, who, which, name a candidate that wants to be labeled anti-innovation. 

Niki: Right! The other issue is Senator Warren and the Chairman of the SEC, Gary Gensler, it might be cynical to say it, but there are like two individuals, well, a couple more, Senator Brown from your home state [Julie: yeah], who themselves almost personally are like lying in front of this issue, like a gigantic speed bump in the name of quote, consumer protection.

But I find that really disingenuous because if people really cared about consumers, and credit, and bad investment decisions, they would go after revolving credit, which they're never going to do. So I think, I don't really get it, but it's just a few individuals that are a problem. 

Julie: What we've seen over the course of, since 2021 to 2024 is, you actually have some Democrats that are challenging the position, and they're doing it in a way that's evidence-based. It's not, you know, political sparring. It's actually, “Let's look at, like, the evidence of this.” And they're not shills for the industry by any means.

Having conversations with these offices you have to be prepared. They ask really smart questions, tough questions, and they make me better because I have to answer them, right. I think there's a slowly a tide that's turning, particularly with Democrats, the younger ones as well that have taken the time to learn about the tech and then to feel comfortable enough to engage.

And then, the second piece is, is around elections and we'll talk about this. But if you look at the, the freshman class that came in from the last cycle, y’know, you had freshman Dems in particular that were placed on House Financial Services that were placed on House Ag, and they were key, y’know, members that were doing this member to member education around these issues. They were solid allies who are not necessarily trying to get everyone to be a hundred percent like, “Go crypto!” But just, like, at least at a minimum be neutral so we can have a constructive conversation about it. 

Because when you vilify an entire industry, it doesn't provide the political cover for others in that same party to have constructive conversations. So, I've been heartened by my conversations with Dem members, and I give their staff also a ton of credit because it's not easy to buck your party, right?

Niki: Well, and part of this, you talked about the vilification of the industry. I mean, and I say this as someone, and y’know, I've worked across this industry, including with CEOs and founders.

Yeah. And sometimes. We vilify ourselves. 

Julie: Yeah, no, we make it easy. 

[both laugh]

Niki: We make it easy when you're, y’know, a hyper libertarian driving, y’know, driving a Lambo. And you talk about being kind of iconoclastic and all of this against the set structure. But people who go in and meet with staffers and go to the Treasury Department and brief SEC lawyers and are wearing a blazer like you are right now. 

[both laugh]

Julie: Yeah. The D.C. uniform. 

Niki: I'm used to being in the Chamber of Commerce working on capital markets. It is absolutely legitimizing and I think that persistent effort from you and others has really changed how people in Washington might think about those who operate in crypto if they were just watching the news cycle, right?

It's a very serious crowd of people who fundamentally understand how money moves, and money works, and banking works, and access to our banking system works. 

Julie: It's easy to get caught up in the sensationalism but, like you said, there are more than a team of people, like a significant group of people that are focused on outcomes.

And that all happens behind the scenes, but it's extremely refreshing and it's one of the reasons that, like, I can keep going [Niki: yeah] because it's tough when you are constantly reacting to sensational headlines, it's redeeming and sort of rejuvenating when you can have thoughtful conversations with Dems and Republicans about policy outcomes that protect consumers and incentivize innovation.

Niki: So, moving from thoughtful policy outcomes to just the horse race of the presidential election, [both laugh]  which is literally the opposite of that. [Julie: laughs] Just, it just frankly is. It doesn't even matter anyone's politics. 

Julie: What's your take? My opinion? And we, we've been doing this the same amount of years, I think.

I've never witnessed a cycle like this!  

Niki: It's, it's mind bending. I, I, I feel like I'm taking angel dust. [both laugh]  Like, I watch the news and I can't believe it. And, and I'm often laughing, not because it's funny, but it is so absurd. [Julie: Yes, yes!]  

It's hard to believe. I mean, it's Veep. 

Julie: Yeah, it is.

Niki:  It's Veep season three! 

Julie: I'm like anyone who's calling what's going to happen, particularly with the presidential election. We have a significant amount of time for multiple things. Anything.

Niki:  I worked for Senator John McCain when no one expected Senator Obama at the time to be the nominee. We thought the campaign was going to be against Hillary Clinton. No one expected, like, the financial collapse. 

Julie: Yeah. Right! 

Niki:  It happened right at the end. Anything can happen. Nobody has any idea.  When I look at this race, the one thing that's fascinating is I never heard any, either of the candidates, including Joe Biden at the time, talk about crypto and then suddenly, former President Trump was asked, “Will you accept crypto donations?”

And he's, there's no donation he's not going to accept. So, he said, “Yes!” And I think that's the reason it's back on the radar.

So, suddenly you've got, the Dem and the Republican talking about this. And why not?! They're trying to raise money so they can get as many TV ads out as possible and as we discussed, there's no political downside, to me, for being in favor of this. 

What do you make of the role that this might play in the election outcome?

Keeping in mind, we just said nobody has any idea what role anything is going to play in the election outcome. [chuckling] 

Julie: Well, I mean, the fact that both candidates are considering and or publicly talking about digital assets policy is a net positive for our industry. I wish it wasn't so partisan, but I guess that's the nature of heading into the election.

Niki: And it's seen as libertarian. [Julie: Yeah] Which, let us not forget, R.F.K. Jr., our candidate who had a worm in his brain. Buried a bear cub in Central Park. 

Julie: You should have him on your podcast. He has some wild stories. 

[both laugh]

Niki: I'm actually going to be him for Halloween. I'm going to saw off the head of, like, a stuffed whale, and just carry it and tape a worm to my head.

I, that's not a joke, I am doing it!  

Julie: Oh, you have to, you have to post that on your site. 

[both still laughing] 

Niki:  I shall! He was the pro-crypto candidate, which was not great for the industry. So, now that he's bowed out, that's great!

Julie: Yeah. I think for Dems, it seems like it was a little bit trickier because of how entrenched opponents were within the caucus. And so, there needed to be an elegant way for them to talk about this in a more favorable way.

And the shift from Biden to Harris, I think, allowed for that at the presidential level. 

Niki: In part because President Biden nominated people who have been absolutely terrible for this technology. 

Julie: Yeah! Going back to just the un-American nature of this. And if you look at Chairman Gensler's track record, it's just, it's so disappointing.

Particularly if you just take a step back and you look at the broad mandate or remit of the SEC as a whole. Like, the fact that he's spending so much time on digital assets is, is puzzling. 

Niki: It's puzzling. [Julie: Yeah] And the SEC is tasked with transparency. [Julie: Yes] Making sure people know what they're doing. That seems pretty simple.

I think most people in the industry are in favor of transparency. But I will say this, hot take. You don't have to agree with it or not. I think there's no political risk to Vice President Harris saying, “Listen, he's out in 26.” There's no political risk because everyone dislikes him. His staff dislikes him, Republicans, Democrats.

I don't think there's a risk to saying he will be replaced. And I think it would be cheering to many people. 

Julie: That is the strongest signal that their campaign could send. I think that's, that has more strength than accepting crypto donations. 

Niki: And setting aside crypto policy, I think it'd be a real shot in the arm for the staffers at the SEC [Julie: mm-hmm] who are overworked, morale's really low, they're bringing cases they can't win. Not just on crypto, just in general. 

I think it would be a super strong signal. The word on the street is some people we know who have worked for Maxine Waters may end up in the administration. [Niki: yeah] So, it would be interesting, but if she just said that, I think, I think Wall Street would be relieved. I think a lot of people would be relieved.

Julie: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the staff at the SEC though, too, because I feel like everybody gets lumped in as Gary Gensler. The companies that we work with or that we invest in have had productive conversations with the SEC staff. A lot of them are lovely and they spent, some of them are careers and they spend their entire life just to, to fulfill the mission of the SEC.

And so, another reason why I think Chairman Gensler's actions are, are unfortunate is because it also colors just these long esteemed careers of the staff that have been working there. 

I feel for, for the staff at the SEC.

Niki: I do, too. [Julie: Yeah] And there have been a number of inquiries in Congress asking what's going on with turnover and morale. So, yes, I think she should do that. But I agree, that would be a much stronger signal than just accepting crypto.

 I know the people we know and work with in the industry are deeply, highly skeptical that a Democrat president is going to do something. 

Julie: I mean, rightfully so, right? It's, it's gotta be show, don't tell. [Niki: Yeah]  And, and I think that, but that's also true for Trump. ‘Cause I remember, when was it ringing in 2021 maybe, I spent my New Year's writing a comment letter on the, the FinCEN rule that they were going to adopt. 

Niki: We were working on that together!  

I do feel optimistic that there will be better and successful legislation over the coming two years, no matter who becomes president, either administration, partly because of the education effort.

Julie: I think so too, and I think people might discount the newer members that are coming into the House that might not have as high of a profile, but are, there's education happening during the campaign. Right? So, “Here's why you should know about digital assets,” before they even get to Congress. And then, once they're there, they're aware that a blockchain caucus exists in the House and that's something that they might want to be part of.

So, there's a lot of infrastructure and education that's happening behind the scenes. That we didn't have in 2021. So, a lot of people are working on that and I think it's going to pay dividends down the road. 

Niki: I am optimistic that we're going to keep moving forward as an industry. I think there are a lot of serious people in D.C. working on this. I think you are one of them.

Thank you. And I said this at the beginning, but it's true. I feel like you are. are somewhat unique in our business because there are people who are respected, but not necessarily universally liked. And then there are people who are sort of likable, but not necessarily respected.

And I feel like you are universally both.

Thank you so much for taking the time to come in and talk about this!